FINDING THE RIGHT ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Episode 8
Topics discussed include:
Links
- Different public and private school options
- Determining what type of school would best meet your child's needs
- Touring schools
- Characteristics of effective administrators
Links
Episode Transcript
Mike: Hi, and welcome to episode eight, finding the right Elementary School. Over the past two decades, we have seen tremendous growth in the elementary school options available to parents. While the number of choices greatly varies across states and different communities, the decision making process of enrolling a child in kindergarten has become a lot more complicated for many families. Since we opened Discovery Child Development Center in 2010, my co director and spouse Dr. Alejandra Livas-Dlott has conducted a parent workshop on navigating the local Wake County Public Schools elementary school system, and is always our most popular workshop of the year. She joins us today to discuss the process of selecting an elementary school for your child. Thanks for joining us today, Alex.
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Thank you for having me.
Mike: So many parents, when is their first time going through this process don't realize how many choices there are out there. What sort of options do parents have today?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: So there are public school options and private school options. Here in Wake County, our public school options are the neighborhood public school, which is called the base school, and you are designated to the school based on your address and it's typically between less than a mile to up to three or five miles distant from your house. There's also a magnet school option that is run by the school district and they have a little bit of extra funding to run a specialized program. Sometimes it can be STEM, it could be Montessori, it can be a leadership school, or a gifted and talented school here in our local district. They have created these specialized programs to draw in or as a magnet drawing families from all over the district to kind of create more diversity in some schools. And the last public school option is Charter School, which is independent from your local school district, but they are run by the state. All those three options are free for parents. In the private school route, you can do a parochial private school or just a traditional private school.
Mike: So I think there is often confusion with magnet and charter. So can you just kind of spell out those differences between the two of them?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Sure. So here in North Carolina, the magnet schools are run by the local school district. So you would have to apply through your local school district for that magnet school. It's usually done in by lottery and charter schools are also you also apply by lottery. But they are run independently from the school district and they run by the state. So here in North Carolina, regardless of which school district or county you live in, you can apply to any charter school in North Carolina. But charter schools even though they're run independent from the district, they can be run by different entities. So sometimes they're run by nonprofits, sometimes are run by individual groups of people, and sometimes they are run by for profit organization. So charter schools, even though they're run by the state can be managed by different groups of people.
Mike: When parents are determining the right school for their child, and whether or not it's a good fit, what are some factors they should think about?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: I think the most important factor, especially if you're moving away from your base, or neighborhood school is philosophy. So you have to think as a parent, how do I believe children learn best and then try to find a school that matches with that belief. Schools vary in their philosophy and how they feel that children learn best. So for example, there are some schools that follow more direct instruction approach. For parents that would look like students sitting in rows, a teacher being in the front of the classroom, kind of giving the curriculum to the students, everyone's kind of on the same page doing the same work. Then you kind of have a traditional model, a little bit of direct instruction, but you would see group work or smaller group work, individual group work, and kind of what you sometimes think about in a traditional school and then just done in a private way, maybe smaller class size. Then you have more progressive schools, such as a Montessori, or a Waldorf or project-based school. So these philosophies do differ greatly and if you feel like your child wouldn't do well sitting in a row listening to a teacher all day, then perhaps a direct instruction school wouldn't be the best fit. If you believe your child will do better and a more individualized learning environment, then perhaps a Montessori or maybe a project-based school would be a better fit for your child. The other things you should think about our support staff, so if your child might require an IEP, or is gifted and talented, or might need some extra social or emotional support, do does that school have that staff to support your child through this and all charter schools. Public schools must meet the needs of your children but not all private schools. need to do that. So if you're going to a small private school, they might be more limited and how they can help your child.
Other things to think about our class size. That can vary greatly. Some schools might have 12 to 14 kids in a kindergarten, some up to 20 to 24. How many teachers are in a class? So maybe it's one teacher for 12 students, or two teachers for 24, or sometimes one teacher for 24. So you have to think about how would my child best be supported in their learning? In what kind of class size and how much support they have, through teachers? Other things to think about are - does the school offer any specials, or electives or after school clubs that would be of interest to your child. Some schools start offering foreign language in kindergarten, other schools start offering it in third grade. Some schools might offer a band or an musical instrument elective at younger ages, and some have that starting in middle school. And lastly, is the diversity. Are you looking for a diverse school? What kind of community are you looking for in a school and where you would feel comfortable?
Mike: Yeah, I think those are really great things to think about when you're starting this process, because a school may be have a great reputation, but it's not necessarily a great school for your child. So you really want to make sure that's the right fit. Also, you want to make sure it's the right fit for your family. So when thinking about the impact on the whole family, what are some things you want to think about?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Well, I think, in taking all those things into consideration, family considerations, how far is the school from your house? Do they offer bus service? So if you pick your neighborhood school, you likely have a bus pick you up and take you to school. Most charter schools do not have bus service. So are you driving 20 and 30 minutes to get to this charter school, and the same with magnets. They might provide bus service, but your child might have to ride a 30 minute bus ride. Also, is this school going to be a good fit for all of your children. If they're close in age, one of the benefits is that they are going to the same elementary school, or the same Middle School. But if that school isn't a good fit for both your children, how are you going to feel about going to two different schools, two different parent teacher nights, two different activities, that can be a lot for a family. So those are some of the things that I would consider.
Mike: Also one other thing to think about with committing to a school that's a little further from your house, you also have to think about where that school is drawing students from. So if mostly other students live close to that school, chances are if you want to do playdates. Let's say your child wants to join a soccer team, or Girl Scouts, you know, they may want to be with their classmates, and that is going to require that you make that drive maybe multiple times a day.
I know one thing you always recommend is touring schools, most schools will offer tours during the year. So when you do take a tour, what are some good questions to ask?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Well, I think the number one question is the philosophy and curriculum questions, and you'll get a lot of that from their website. But you can see what that looks like in action. Some schools might say they're progressive or child-centered, but when you go into the school, you're seeing a lot of teachers talking to kids a lot, or vice versa. So you want to get those curriculum questions answered. Is it hands-on learning? Is it direct instruction and kind of see that in action. Other questions you can have if it's a private school is what is your accreditation? Is there another body or entity kind of following up and making sure that they're doing things in a certain way or in the right way? What are the teacher qualifications? Some private schools don't require credentials. Some charter schools require a lower percentage of teachers having certain credentials than other public schools. And if that's something that's important to you, that's something you would like to know, you should ask at a tour. What is their homework policy? Are they going to have nightly homework, weekly homework? What is the average time spent on homework? Schools do vary on this policy, and it can make a big difference in a family's life. Other things are, how do you differentiate instruction for children? So if you have an advanced learner or you have a student that's struggling in a certain area, how are they going to help that student out? Other questions you can ask too is what are the special services they provide for students, and the after school clubs or activities that a child can partake. There are some charter schools that have parent volunteer requirements or private schools that do so what are their requirements? Or what is that parental involvement look like? Or the PTA? And if you're touring the private school, you should also consider is what are your tuition fees? A lot of private schools have additional fees or semester fees, or book fees. So you want to definitely make sure you know what's that total amount of money that you're expecting to pay.
Mike: One thing you always pay close attention to when you're on school tours is taking a look at the work that's displayed in the hallway. What sort of things do you look for?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Well, I would definitely make sure that the work is looks relevant and recent, it hasn't been up there half a year. I also look to see if the work allow for students to be creative? Is it kind of student-centered? Or is it teacher driven, a little overly structured? Is it allowing kids to write, be creative, or draw? Is it allowing for that individuality? I think that's important, especially for students to be able to express themselves in a school that allows that, or displays that in their hallway is probably a good indication of a quality school. Also, just the quality of work. If you're looking at the kindergarten work as a parent, is that the kind of work you want your child to bring home. If you're going outside that public, or your neighborhood school, you definitely want to make sure that you have a better fit, or a good fit.
Mike: Right, and I think also paying close attention, not just to the kindergarten, but to look at the upper grades, because one day your child is also going to be in third and fourth grade and what are they doing at those grades?
I know it's hard to get the ideal classroom, ut what would an ideal kindergarten room look like to you?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Well, I think number one you want to have students picking from many different centers during their center time. You could look out for a science center, on the building center with a lot of different blocks or things to build with like magformers, connects, a writing center,, a creative space where they can create and use their creativity in also their individuality, library book nook, with a lot of different types of books to read, not just fiction, but also nonfiction books. So you definitely want to have that center set-up. Beyond looking at centers, you also want to see the tables. Are they sitting at individual tables? Are they group tables where kids can work collaboratively or sit together and socialize? You know, a big part of kindergarten is socialization, learning how to be part of that group. So how is that room set up? It it allowing kids to build those skills? You also want to have space for students to move around and explore, not too restrictive of a space. Kindergarten classrooms should allow for child creativity. You also want to look at the work on the wall. Is it relevant to what they're learning? Is it created mostly by students? Are they mostly pre made posters that were just put up at the beginning of the year, and kind of been sitting there or the whole year? Also, is there a huge emphasis on the board where teacher is the center of attention kind of teaching to the whole group? I think ideally, you should have a classroom where the emphasis is on working with others working with materials, learning from your peers, and also your teacher. So not having that huge emphasis on the board or the front of the room.
Mike: So another thing you want to pay close attention to is the school leadership, the principal and assistant principal if they have one. What are some qualities you want to look for in a leader?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Well, I have taught at schools with great leadership and I've taught at schools with weak leadership, and it definitely makes a difference. I always tell parents, do you want to be at the school where you know all the teachers are so unhappy that they're spending all their free time in the teacher resource room and the break room talking about the principal? Or do you want to be at a school where they're using their time to talk about their new project, something exciting they're doing in their classroom, and a bad principal or a toxic environment can make that difference. You definitely want to have a principal that's creating a positive school community where teachers, parents and student voices are heard and respected.
Along with that, you want a good communicator, if there's a new policy, or what are the current policies, he's able to communicate these explain why they're being in place. He's also out there communicating with families, he's out greeting students on campus at the carpool line. You know, students that know who their principal is, and they respect him. I find it wary when all students are afraid of the principal, that's obviously they're not building a good relationship with the students. And they also want a good leader. Be accessible to parents and hear parent feedback, but you'd also don't want to principal is going to push over to parent pressure. You want someone that's going to be a good leader and stay firm and strong with what that school believes in and their values and their policies.
Mike: Visibility you mentioned earlier, and when I taught middle school, I think it was the month of May and the principal for the first time step foot in my classroom, and probably the first time in the hallway. When he left, students ask, "who was that old man?" They thought the assistant principal was the principal and they had no idea who he was, so that's not a good thing.
Dr. Livas- Dlott: Yeah, it's not a good sign of a good principal. And, you know, going back to your tour question, I've been on many tours of schools. I've had one principal give a tour, I've had principals who've seen a group of parents in the tour, come over and greet us, and I had one principal who saw a group tour and turn their back and walked away. Right there on the tour, you can kind of start getting a sense of what the principal's role is at the school and how they have built a relationship with the parents and teachers.
Mike: There is a lot more data available now for parents when making decisions. It can be difficult to interpret that data, though. Can you talk a little bit about what's available?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Every district and state post test scores. Here in North Carolina, you have the North Carolina report card, thanks to No Child Left Behind. But you know, each school district, not only are they posting their scores, but each school gets a grade based on the growth in test scores. So they're not stagnant, but they're trying to move students forward. But I definitely wouldn't base my all my decision about the school child based on test scores. You also don't want to just take the test scores as a whole, but, you know, take apart those test scores, and a lot of the district and state websites allow you to do this, but look at each subgroup, how are how is each subgroup doing and if you belong to that sub one of those subgroups, definitely, you want to kind of look at that data as it's taken apart. Another thing I find really helpful here in North Carolina is a North Carolina teaching conditions survey. And here you can see survey results from teachers of how they feel like how much time for planning they get or time for support, how long they've been at the school was the teacher turnover? Do teachers work collaboratively? information on class size, communicating communication from the administration or professional development? And I would give that a lot of importance a little bit, sometimes more than the test scores is, you know, that gives you information about what's the atmosphere, what's the environment in the school? And do they value the things that I value. Other data that you can look for is just, you know, great schools comm or the internet and see what the parent reviews are. Yes, you will always get one or two disgruntled parents, you know, you're always going to see one or two negative reviews, maybe about a school and I wouldn't focus on those. But as a whole, what type of reviews is the school school getting, and also just your neighborhood blogs, the bus stop, go talk to some parents at the bus stop. And that's also very valuable data, because they're living it. They're there. They're in the school, and they can provide you with a lot of important information.
Mike: Hi, and welcome to episode eight, finding the right Elementary School. Over the past two decades, we have seen tremendous growth in the elementary school options available to parents. While the number of choices greatly varies across states and different communities, the decision making process of enrolling a child in kindergarten has become a lot more complicated for many families. Since we opened Discovery Child Development Center in 2010, my co director and spouse Dr. Alejandra Livas-Dlott has conducted a parent workshop on navigating the local Wake County Public Schools elementary school system, and is always our most popular workshop of the year. She joins us today to discuss the process of selecting an elementary school for your child. Thanks for joining us today, Alex.
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Thank you for having me.
Mike: So many parents, when is their first time going through this process don't realize how many choices there are out there. What sort of options do parents have today?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: So there are public school options and private school options. Here in Wake County, our public school options are the neighborhood public school, which is called the base school, and you are designated to the school based on your address and it's typically between less than a mile to up to three or five miles distant from your house. There's also a magnet school option that is run by the school district and they have a little bit of extra funding to run a specialized program. Sometimes it can be STEM, it could be Montessori, it can be a leadership school, or a gifted and talented school here in our local district. They have created these specialized programs to draw in or as a magnet drawing families from all over the district to kind of create more diversity in some schools. And the last public school option is Charter School, which is independent from your local school district, but they are run by the state. All those three options are free for parents. In the private school route, you can do a parochial private school or just a traditional private school.
Mike: So I think there is often confusion with magnet and charter. So can you just kind of spell out those differences between the two of them?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Sure. So here in North Carolina, the magnet schools are run by the local school district. So you would have to apply through your local school district for that magnet school. It's usually done in by lottery and charter schools are also you also apply by lottery. But they are run independently from the school district and they run by the state. So here in North Carolina, regardless of which school district or county you live in, you can apply to any charter school in North Carolina. But charter schools even though they're run independent from the district, they can be run by different entities. So sometimes they're run by nonprofits, sometimes are run by individual groups of people, and sometimes they are run by for profit organization. So charter schools, even though they're run by the state can be managed by different groups of people.
Mike: When parents are determining the right school for their child, and whether or not it's a good fit, what are some factors they should think about?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: I think the most important factor, especially if you're moving away from your base, or neighborhood school is philosophy. So you have to think as a parent, how do I believe children learn best and then try to find a school that matches with that belief. Schools vary in their philosophy and how they feel that children learn best. So for example, there are some schools that follow more direct instruction approach. For parents that would look like students sitting in rows, a teacher being in the front of the classroom, kind of giving the curriculum to the students, everyone's kind of on the same page doing the same work. Then you kind of have a traditional model, a little bit of direct instruction, but you would see group work or smaller group work, individual group work, and kind of what you sometimes think about in a traditional school and then just done in a private way, maybe smaller class size. Then you have more progressive schools, such as a Montessori, or a Waldorf or project-based school. So these philosophies do differ greatly and if you feel like your child wouldn't do well sitting in a row listening to a teacher all day, then perhaps a direct instruction school wouldn't be the best fit. If you believe your child will do better and a more individualized learning environment, then perhaps a Montessori or maybe a project-based school would be a better fit for your child. The other things you should think about our support staff, so if your child might require an IEP, or is gifted and talented, or might need some extra social or emotional support, do does that school have that staff to support your child through this and all charter schools. Public schools must meet the needs of your children but not all private schools. need to do that. So if you're going to a small private school, they might be more limited and how they can help your child.
Other things to think about our class size. That can vary greatly. Some schools might have 12 to 14 kids in a kindergarten, some up to 20 to 24. How many teachers are in a class? So maybe it's one teacher for 12 students, or two teachers for 24, or sometimes one teacher for 24. So you have to think about how would my child best be supported in their learning? In what kind of class size and how much support they have, through teachers? Other things to think about are - does the school offer any specials, or electives or after school clubs that would be of interest to your child. Some schools start offering foreign language in kindergarten, other schools start offering it in third grade. Some schools might offer a band or an musical instrument elective at younger ages, and some have that starting in middle school. And lastly, is the diversity. Are you looking for a diverse school? What kind of community are you looking for in a school and where you would feel comfortable?
Mike: Yeah, I think those are really great things to think about when you're starting this process, because a school may be have a great reputation, but it's not necessarily a great school for your child. So you really want to make sure that's the right fit. Also, you want to make sure it's the right fit for your family. So when thinking about the impact on the whole family, what are some things you want to think about?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Well, I think, in taking all those things into consideration, family considerations, how far is the school from your house? Do they offer bus service? So if you pick your neighborhood school, you likely have a bus pick you up and take you to school. Most charter schools do not have bus service. So are you driving 20 and 30 minutes to get to this charter school, and the same with magnets. They might provide bus service, but your child might have to ride a 30 minute bus ride. Also, is this school going to be a good fit for all of your children. If they're close in age, one of the benefits is that they are going to the same elementary school, or the same Middle School. But if that school isn't a good fit for both your children, how are you going to feel about going to two different schools, two different parent teacher nights, two different activities, that can be a lot for a family. So those are some of the things that I would consider.
Mike: Also one other thing to think about with committing to a school that's a little further from your house, you also have to think about where that school is drawing students from. So if mostly other students live close to that school, chances are if you want to do playdates. Let's say your child wants to join a soccer team, or Girl Scouts, you know, they may want to be with their classmates, and that is going to require that you make that drive maybe multiple times a day.
I know one thing you always recommend is touring schools, most schools will offer tours during the year. So when you do take a tour, what are some good questions to ask?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Well, I think the number one question is the philosophy and curriculum questions, and you'll get a lot of that from their website. But you can see what that looks like in action. Some schools might say they're progressive or child-centered, but when you go into the school, you're seeing a lot of teachers talking to kids a lot, or vice versa. So you want to get those curriculum questions answered. Is it hands-on learning? Is it direct instruction and kind of see that in action. Other questions you can have if it's a private school is what is your accreditation? Is there another body or entity kind of following up and making sure that they're doing things in a certain way or in the right way? What are the teacher qualifications? Some private schools don't require credentials. Some charter schools require a lower percentage of teachers having certain credentials than other public schools. And if that's something that's important to you, that's something you would like to know, you should ask at a tour. What is their homework policy? Are they going to have nightly homework, weekly homework? What is the average time spent on homework? Schools do vary on this policy, and it can make a big difference in a family's life. Other things are, how do you differentiate instruction for children? So if you have an advanced learner or you have a student that's struggling in a certain area, how are they going to help that student out? Other questions you can ask too is what are the special services they provide for students, and the after school clubs or activities that a child can partake. There are some charter schools that have parent volunteer requirements or private schools that do so what are their requirements? Or what is that parental involvement look like? Or the PTA? And if you're touring the private school, you should also consider is what are your tuition fees? A lot of private schools have additional fees or semester fees, or book fees. So you want to definitely make sure you know what's that total amount of money that you're expecting to pay.
Mike: One thing you always pay close attention to when you're on school tours is taking a look at the work that's displayed in the hallway. What sort of things do you look for?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Well, I would definitely make sure that the work is looks relevant and recent, it hasn't been up there half a year. I also look to see if the work allow for students to be creative? Is it kind of student-centered? Or is it teacher driven, a little overly structured? Is it allowing kids to write, be creative, or draw? Is it allowing for that individuality? I think that's important, especially for students to be able to express themselves in a school that allows that, or displays that in their hallway is probably a good indication of a quality school. Also, just the quality of work. If you're looking at the kindergarten work as a parent, is that the kind of work you want your child to bring home. If you're going outside that public, or your neighborhood school, you definitely want to make sure that you have a better fit, or a good fit.
Mike: Right, and I think also paying close attention, not just to the kindergarten, but to look at the upper grades, because one day your child is also going to be in third and fourth grade and what are they doing at those grades?
I know it's hard to get the ideal classroom, ut what would an ideal kindergarten room look like to you?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Well, I think number one you want to have students picking from many different centers during their center time. You could look out for a science center, on the building center with a lot of different blocks or things to build with like magformers, connects, a writing center,, a creative space where they can create and use their creativity in also their individuality, library book nook, with a lot of different types of books to read, not just fiction, but also nonfiction books. So you definitely want to have that center set-up. Beyond looking at centers, you also want to see the tables. Are they sitting at individual tables? Are they group tables where kids can work collaboratively or sit together and socialize? You know, a big part of kindergarten is socialization, learning how to be part of that group. So how is that room set up? It it allowing kids to build those skills? You also want to have space for students to move around and explore, not too restrictive of a space. Kindergarten classrooms should allow for child creativity. You also want to look at the work on the wall. Is it relevant to what they're learning? Is it created mostly by students? Are they mostly pre made posters that were just put up at the beginning of the year, and kind of been sitting there or the whole year? Also, is there a huge emphasis on the board where teacher is the center of attention kind of teaching to the whole group? I think ideally, you should have a classroom where the emphasis is on working with others working with materials, learning from your peers, and also your teacher. So not having that huge emphasis on the board or the front of the room.
Mike: So another thing you want to pay close attention to is the school leadership, the principal and assistant principal if they have one. What are some qualities you want to look for in a leader?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Well, I have taught at schools with great leadership and I've taught at schools with weak leadership, and it definitely makes a difference. I always tell parents, do you want to be at the school where you know all the teachers are so unhappy that they're spending all their free time in the teacher resource room and the break room talking about the principal? Or do you want to be at a school where they're using their time to talk about their new project, something exciting they're doing in their classroom, and a bad principal or a toxic environment can make that difference. You definitely want to have a principal that's creating a positive school community where teachers, parents and student voices are heard and respected.
Along with that, you want a good communicator, if there's a new policy, or what are the current policies, he's able to communicate these explain why they're being in place. He's also out there communicating with families, he's out greeting students on campus at the carpool line. You know, students that know who their principal is, and they respect him. I find it wary when all students are afraid of the principal, that's obviously they're not building a good relationship with the students. And they also want a good leader. Be accessible to parents and hear parent feedback, but you'd also don't want to principal is going to push over to parent pressure. You want someone that's going to be a good leader and stay firm and strong with what that school believes in and their values and their policies.
Mike: Visibility you mentioned earlier, and when I taught middle school, I think it was the month of May and the principal for the first time step foot in my classroom, and probably the first time in the hallway. When he left, students ask, "who was that old man?" They thought the assistant principal was the principal and they had no idea who he was, so that's not a good thing.
Dr. Livas- Dlott: Yeah, it's not a good sign of a good principal. And, you know, going back to your tour question, I've been on many tours of schools. I've had one principal give a tour, I've had principals who've seen a group of parents in the tour, come over and greet us, and I had one principal who saw a group tour and turn their back and walked away. Right there on the tour, you can kind of start getting a sense of what the principal's role is at the school and how they have built a relationship with the parents and teachers.
Mike: There is a lot more data available now for parents when making decisions. It can be difficult to interpret that data, though. Can you talk a little bit about what's available?
Dr. Livas-Dlott: Every district and state post test scores. Here in North Carolina, you have the North Carolina report card, thanks to No Child Left Behind. But you know, each school district, not only are they posting their scores, but each school gets a grade based on the growth in test scores. So they're not stagnant, but they're trying to move students forward. But I definitely wouldn't base my all my decision about the school child based on test scores. You also don't want to just take the test scores as a whole, but, you know, take apart those test scores, and a lot of the district and state websites allow you to do this, but look at each subgroup, how are how is each subgroup doing and if you belong to that sub one of those subgroups, definitely, you want to kind of look at that data as it's taken apart. Another thing I find really helpful here in North Carolina is a North Carolina teaching conditions survey. And here you can see survey results from teachers of how they feel like how much time for planning they get or time for support, how long they've been at the school was the teacher turnover? Do teachers work collaboratively? information on class size, communicating communication from the administration or professional development? And I would give that a lot of importance a little bit, sometimes more than the test scores is, you know, that gives you information about what's the atmosphere, what's the environment in the school? And do they value the things that I value. Other data that you can look for is just, you know, great schools comm or the internet and see what the parent reviews are. Yes, you will always get one or two disgruntled parents, you know, you're always going to see one or two negative reviews, maybe about a school and I wouldn't focus on those. But as a whole, what type of reviews is the school school getting, and also just your neighborhood blogs, the bus stop, go talk to some parents at the bus stop. And that's also very valuable data, because they're living it. They're there. They're in the school, and they can provide you with a lot of important information.